Discussion and the exchange of emails continues amongst members who have a particular interest in the subject. Printed below are extracts in roughly chronological order revealing more facts and opinions than the photographs and established documentation alone can provide.
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Do you think that this might be the solution to
the mystery? Much of the route has since been quarried out of course.
Gary. 1
Mar 05
This is what is being discussed, Paul
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A large number of these "Wirksworth Mechanical Scheme" - Conveyer- 050, 064,098 and Cromford Rd -037,063 taken late fifties during the building of the present loading conveyer show this line ,the triangle of track and the line into the quarry across the field .At this time the line was still in use .
Pete 1st March
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Today I went for a pint in Wirksworth and was
able to find a definitive answer on the quarry and lines featured in the
picture on page 152 .I was talking to W.H.Phillips Daughter who is the wife of
an ex colleague .He worked at various quarries in Wirksworth including
Dale,Middlepeak and the Quarry in question.
It was this quarry that was taken over by
Phillips and later leased to Wimpeys, not the Colehill Quarry near to the
present Stone Centre.They both said that this was the quarry responsible for
the vast amounts of stone transported for the construction of the M1. This is
also the reason it was only shown on O.S. maps for such a short time .Before
Phillips took it over it was worked on a small scale by about three men and
horses hauled the trucks, it was referred to as Shaws rather than Colehill. A
number of locals said that the northerly Colehill Quarry was abandoned and used
by the local kids as an adventure playground from the late forties.
While taking a few photos of plant demolition a
chap came up who was involved in the construction of the conveyer and was
interested to see its demolition .
I have been referring to your Stone Traffic
section while trying to assemble an intro to Pauls new Web Page on Quarries but
as you mention there is so much material it is a matter of what to leave out.
Pete S 7
Mar 05
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Yes, I noticed the excellent ‘conveyor construction’ photo on the website after I sent my email – it clearly shows a pair of rails emerging from a shallow cutting.
Gary. 1st March
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Attached is a 1968 OS map (still in copyright, and please excuse the
sellotape!) that shows the trackbed of this little line. The quarry is
serves appears to be grouped with Colehill. Why on earth didn't I spot the
significance of this before?
Assuming the track is narrow gauge, the triangle of lines it forms where it
meets the standard gauge track would fit in with the crusher and loading
shute mentioned in the caption to the 1932 photograph, and when George and I
were there a year ago, the shute was still clearly visible, as were some
earthworks to the north of where the new platform is being built. Indeed we
postulated that there must have been an old line there, but of course, we
were looking for evidence of the one we believe to be shown on the 1932
picture. Interestingly, on the 1932 picture, there is clearly some kind of
earthwork running on what looks like the line of this "newly-discovered"
railway, but neither George or I had given it any significance before.
As I said - fascinating - well spotted!
Howard 1st March
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I have been away quite a bit recently and only just caught up with the
e-mails. Thanks for copying me in on these. The photo and map are great.
This new line is new to me also and i do not remember anything of it from
the late 50s on. First thoughts are has it actually got rails in the photo -
looks more like ruts from lorry usage to me but i could be wrong. It's a
lovely little cutting though but unless it is very deep there is quite a
grade on the line - must have been cable-worked i would have thought. Good
point about the trees - I think most of this land was grazed if not actually
part of the workings. This whole area was completely changed during the M1
Wimpey/W.H.Phillips phase when everything up Old Lane above the bridge under
the Midland incline and across almost to Cromford Road was either dug away
or dumped on.
A few of these photos showing the construction of the conveyor are on the
Picture-the-Past site but this one is new to me. It looks almost as if the
conveyor is going into the old hoppers on the far side, but this is not so,
it appears the new hoppers fed by the conveyor were not then erected. This
must have been 1953-5 when the conveyor was built.
George 7th March
* * ** * * * * * * * This is interesting and I wouldn't dispute it except that the name "Shaw's"
seems to have been applied to both quarries. Probably Shaw had the rights to
the whole area. The Wimpey operations were not neatly confined to the quarry
itself but seem to have involved tipping waste and regrading most of the
land around there, generally making a mess of what had been a quite neat and
tidy area around the upper part of Old Lane. I know a lot of people weren't
happy about it at the time. I don't know if stone was extracted from the
"old" Shaw's quarry (by the Midland incline) at this time but quite a lot of
material was tipped here at this time, filling the deep hole at the far side
and leaving the present level floor. Before this the road into the quarry
led you to a sudden sheer drop, and sticking out over the abyss were the
ends of the rails of the NG line, which was buried under the roadway (and
possibly still is). I suppose it was a good thing that this hazard was
abolished.
Of course when I wrote yesterday's note I had not then seen the whole
picture of the conveyor on the website - now I have and what a fine view it
is. I will spend some time studying it.
We were in Wazzer a couple of weeks ago and commented on the conveyor, not
knowing it was due for the chop. The old place will look rather different
without it.
George 8th March
* * ** * * * * * * * What a goldmine! Thanks very much for letting us in on this. So many
questions answered and new ones asked!
I am away quite a lot at present so have not been able to spend much time on
them as yet but a couple of things strike me
063, 018w and 002w show narrow-gauge Ruston diesels, one without cab below
the incline, one with, above. We have identities for two of these but I
don't know how many they had. 063 shows the NG loco shed on R, and the old
crusher on the far side of theSG line to the Midland incline - the line is
out of sight in the cutting of course.
Are some of these the Big Hole? I wondered about no 16. No 26 is of course,
though actually taken in the station yard.
012w is a surprise - doesn't look like any Wirksworth engine I know of - it
is a Hunslet (Not an Austerity but the earlier type) and looks like it
belongs in the ironstone country - did this photo get misfiled? Nice picture
though.
I presume these are from the Derbyshire Stone archives. Thanks again - I am
sure I will have more to say on these after more time to study them.
George 11 March
* * ** * * * * * * * While I can't place the location, the loco could be Grantham or Gunby at
Harlaxton, (which coincidentally is where Holwell No 3 worked before coming
to Wirksworth), though there were a couple of others in the ironstone, one
at Oxfordshire Ironstone but I would have to trawl through 9 volumes of
Tonks to track the other down. These locos (50550 class, from the order
number) were built for an abortive wartime development at Islip and were
dispersed when that didn't come off.
Harlaxton seems most likely as it was a Stanton operation.
Did these photos come with any background info, dates etc or is it up to us
to fill in the deatils? Are there any prizes?
George 12 March
There are 2 major collections of photographs and an assortment of odd ones, old and current, which are used on this website.
The Tarmac Collection (Tarmac Roadstone Ltd) have been entrusted to EVRA for use as part of our Heritage archive. Clearly not all have been used here. They are believed to have been taken by the then Manager (name unknown) and are fairly well authenticated as mid 1950s. Clearly he was a most acccomplished photographer as these pictures bear witness to.
I am not aware of any written records to accompany them.
The collection of photos of Dale quarry (mid 1930s to 1960ish) are well authenticated. They have kindly been made available in trust to EVRA by Mr D Millar, whose wife is the daughter of the former quarry manager in that era. He was the photographer. Mrs Millar has been helpful in recording an interview for EVRA (by Vince Morris) which will be used in the Interpretation Coach (under preparation) at Wirksworth Station.
- this note added 4th July 2005 by Paul while collating this collection -
* * ** * * * * * * * Quite a good page for the reference to Lead Mining in your Quarry Home Page .
Lead Mining
Pete 15th March
* * ** * * * * * * * Looking at the photo (page 4 – lower), it would seem to me that the new building in the
foreground is the crushing plant, and the foundations by the mouth of the
tunnel are for a large range of hoppers for storage of the crushed & graded
material, which can when * * *
* * * * * * * What excellent stuff. George 22nd March * ** * * * * * * * Have a look at The Memories Of Wirksworth By Edith Taylor . Page 16 -17 Rise End .
Pete 25th March (This is a gem -- Paul)
* ** * * * * * * * I have attached an aerial photograph (taken in the last 3 years I think)
from 2000 ft taking in some of the quarries. Does anyone feel confident to
mark this up, outlining the boundaries of the individual quarries both
filled in and un-filled?
Paul
Note the letters used in the reply below do no relate to those on the map containing on-site links.
Here's a rough shot at it but I need to have a lot more time on Adobe to
know what I am doing. I have marked the quarries very approximately. Some I
have indicated by letters.
A is A.Shaw's Colehill Quarry, (with the ng feeder which descended to where
Ravenstor Platform is now)
B is the one we have been calling Colehill East - with the "new" incline (or
road?) visible in the 50s pictures
C was the Monkey Hole quarry (part of D I believe, but the other side of
the Monkey Bridge)
D was the part of Middlepeak originally worked by Hopton Wood Stone Firms
E was the extent of Bowne & Shaw's Middlepeak a century ago (very
approximate)
As you can see C, D and E have all been swallowed up in the present
Middlepeak. Probably the greater part of that expansion took place since the
re-equipment of the quarry in the 50s as seen in those wonderful pictures.
The deep pools are very striking.
Hope this helps, George
I have attached an aerial photograph (taken in the last 3 years I think)
from 2000 ft taking in some of the quarries. Does anyone feel confident to
mark this up, outlining the boundaries of the individual quarries both
filled in and un-filled? It would help me no end, and might even be worth
using on the website if copyright issues can be resolved.
Paul
* ** * * * * * * * Sorry not commented before but been away walking in the Lake District for the Bank Holiday weekend. Lovely archive picture looking down across Middlepeak Quarries down to the narrow gauge line and Bowne & Shaw's. The side tipping wagons are very characteristic of those used within many quarries and industrial operations. I agree George looks like the photographs are taken prior to abandonment of the narrow gauge and the development of the hopper and conveyor system.
Certainly looks like Uppingham in the background, so that puts the photograph post 1948. In the background beyond the MR Incline next to Ashleigh House is the small copse containing Grey Horse Engine Shaft. Very unusual for a lead mine shaft in being red-brick lined for the first 100 ft of the 175 ft deep shaft. The shaft was originally about 8 ft diameter but has a considerable thickness of flowstone reducing it to about 6ft diameter! I wonder if the bricks come from the brickworks on the opposite side of the incline to Meerbrooksough Mine?
To the left of the copse is a low spoil heap and the access track to what I call the NE Quarry (See Howard's Book page 152), this clearly carried a narrow gauge line in the early days, but subsequently must have been converted to road haulage presumably when WH Phillips took over the quarry in the 1960s. It is part of Colehill Hill Quarry, really three quarries Colehill, Pensend and Steeplegrange (NE Quarry). This was the most recent of the three quarries and post dates the 1922 1:2500 map. It was probably started after 1948 when planning permission was given for 35 acres.
I have a reference to mechanisation being introduced to Middlepeak Quarries in 1955, prior to this date sugar-beet stone had to be broken by hand! The labour force was reduced to 80 from 220 in 1945!
Howard puts the conveyor at 1954, So I guess the photograph is early to mid 50s.
I wonder if any of the narrow gauge track survives buried as well as the standard gauge on the MR Incline? I remember seeing the narrow gauge track exposed where it crossed Old Lane in the 70s. At the time I did not realise there used to be a bridge there! It seems strange as it does not seem to tie in with the levels as in the photograph. I wish now I had photographed it, seem to remember the narrow gauge track was removed on the lane probably after trenching possibly sewerage.
Robin 2nd June
* ** * * * * * * * I can confirm that some of the narrow gauge track has been exposed at the
top of the incline by Old Lane bridge including some pointwork. There are
traces of track under the road itself and past the hoppers/kilns. I can also
confirm that certainly for the fist fifty to sixty yards the standard gauge
lines ran up the 1 in 5 section. As we discovered on Tuesday, this is double
track. We intend to leave the foot of this section exposed with a walkway
in the six foot between the two tracks. Further up the Incline, the two trenches
which I dug two years ago have been back filled again until they can be uncovered
properly - there are no plans to do this yet. All our activities are to re-open
the main line, but with all out attention of getting the section to Ravenstor
passed and ready for passenger operation before September.
Phil 2nd June
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Fascinating... I honestly don't think the line on the map is the one shown
running parallel to the incline in the 1932 photo - it's at the wrong angle
to the incline track. However, it's one that I haven't come across before
at all, and indeed, I'm not familiar with the quarry that it serves...
George...?!
required drop on to the conveyor belt for despatch. Gary's recent photos g13
& g14 seem to bear this out.
Several of these pictures, notably (page 4 – upper right), show the Ruston loco
with
wagons to or from the incline, these are the square-bodied side tipping type
as seen in the two incline photos in Howard's book. However there are some
long lines of wagons of a different type, with V-shaped tipping bodies a bit
like a larger version of the well-known 2ft gauge skip wagons as now on
display at the tunnel mouth below the stationmaster's house. Were these used
only in the quarry, perhaps from face to crusher, and the square ones only
down the incline? Was there indeed a crusher before the one we see being
built in these photos?
George 21st March
Photo 098 when seen in full contains a wealth of interest. You can see
practically the whole of Old Lane from the bridge over the incline form
Middlepeak right up to the bridge under the C&HP line top left. It is very
clear where Old Lane was diverted to the left to pass under the Midland
Incline at a point where it was high enough. Also apparent is how neat and
tidy the lane is above this point, with stone walls in good order and most
fields grazed. I remember a small stream that ran in a neat stone-lined
channel alongside for a short way. All this was altered in the
Wimpey/Phillips period of work (M1 construction) when most areas that
weren't dug up were dumped on. I don't think Old Lane itself was actually
diverted but the path that branched off between the easterly quarries
certainly was.
Shaw's Colehills quarry (beside the Midland Incline) seems to be largely
screened by trees, but it has given rise to a couple of spoil tips to the
right. Below these you can just see a bit of the NG incline before it dips
into the cutting, and again at the bottom just above the new conveyor by the
old barn. This is just above the present Ravenstor Platform. In the photo on
p 152 of Howard's book, looking down the incline, you can see the second NG
line parallel to it behind the hedge. This must have come out below the
lower spoil tip on 098, but you can't see it because of the hedge, but to
the R at the end of the hedge it emerges and looks as if it is used by road
vehicles, as is another alignment just above which emerges between the 2
spoil tips. Both of these converge near the old crusher and go off to the
right, and on other photos such as 050 you can see this leads to a pair of
chutes quite close to Cromford Road. These chutes are shown on the 1968
map, and remains are visible today, but according to the 1922 map this was
the site of the end of the Aerial Ropeway (then disused) from the
Hopton-Wood Stone Firms' Middlepeak quarry. Also converging with this is the
line from the newish but quite large quarry (should we call it East
Colehills?) which was shown on Paul's 1950 map. You can see the triangular
formation but oddly , the right-hand branch leading directly to the Cromford
Rd chutes doesn't seem much used, but the other branch seems to meet the
lines from Colehills at right angles, not curving gently into a junction. I
suspect that by this time it was not rail-worked and most traffic from both
old and East Colehills sites came by dumper truck to the Cromford Road
chutes. But this is just speculation and I would be glad to be proved wrong.
The gradient in the cutting is impossible to estimate. Below the cutting it
looks quite steep but this may be deceptive due to the distant
point-of-view. Can't tell if it was cable-worked or not.
Below this is the old crusher, seemingly alongside the new hoppers but
actually on the far side of the cutting with the SG tracks approaching the
Midland incline. This does not appear on the 1922 or 1968 OS maps but is
seen looking quite new on the 1932 photo in Howard's book. I remember seeing
it in the 60s, derelict but still standing but it disappeared shortly after.
The incline from Middlepeak can be seen passing under Old Lane on L, and you
can just see a bit of the top beside the conveyor at extreme L. Photo 002w
shows the top, beside the excavation for the conveyor, and a Ruston diesel
(with cab) can be seen with 4 wagons about to descend. Can't see anything
of the winding gear - if this was North Wales there would have been a big
drum above the tracks, but in this case the cables must have passed
underground to the drum, which may have been in the stone building to R. The
bottom of this line is shown in 063, another Ruston, this time cabless, is
about to take some loaded wagons over the SG tracks to the dock. In front is
the compressor house (or is it a water pump?) seen in Gary's recent
pictures, and beside it the steel frame is for the "Dutch barn" (then
in
course of erection) seen in the photo in Howard's book p173. In the distance
is seen the ng loco shed, and the old crusher. The SG racks are in course of
rearrangement, the bullhead track is clearly well established and I believe
goes up to Stoneycroft over the level crossing of Old Lane. The new
flat-bottom track is due to replace it as the Stoneycroft approach. It seems
the layout here had changed considerably from the 1922 plan even before the
1953 works that included the conveyor. The site for the new hoppers and
sidings has been cleared and the white slope in the background appears to be
the incline from Colehills to the site now known as Ravenstor.
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